Alex Sanders was a key figure in what many believe to be an Ivory-bill hoax in South Carolina in 1971.
At this blog posting, there's a link to a remarkable recent 19-minute speech (WMA format) by Alex Sanders. In this speech, Sanders describes how an "Ivory-bill" was miraculously heard just exactly when needed to suit his purposes.
(Near the end of this talk, Sanders relates the old "Ivory-bill that wrecked Alexander Wilson's room" story in a way quite different from this version).
Open Thread
3 hours ago
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13 comments:
Tom,
I appreciate the link to my blog about the Sanders story. I would, however, prefer for folks to go directly to my blog and click through from there.
thanks,
-christen
It's always the blurry videos that look like IBWO's. Why is that?
I found this quote the most interesting thing on Christen's blog.
"I was really wanting to get down to the White River NWR. Word around the campfire is that this is where the action is."
I wonder what the good people of Brinkley think about "the chase" having now passed them by? Good bye IBWO burgers? Good bye tourists?
Christen seems young and impressionable. Such types were the reason that mentors were invented.
Ahh....To be young and impressionable again. To not be jaded by the harsh realities of adulthood. Actually, I'm in my 30's. I'm still young, but not a neophyte. I'll be honest with you. I'll go on the record here on skeptic-central and say that yes, I am skeptical. But, having said that I do believe that the Luneau video isn't a pileated. And I do believe that the double raps and calls from WR are genuine. But, I won't be satisfied until we have emphatic proof of the existence of an IBWO. The 'Kodak Moment', so to speak. In the past, eye-witness reports from experts were good enough. I guess not anymore in the video age. Where I differ from most of the skeptics is that I think we should keep looking for the bird. Now is not the time to quit.
I fund my research with grants from the Bank of Christen, so I get left out of the fray usually. I just get labeled as a card-carrying member of the Tinfoil Hat Brigade, and that's fine with me. Sticks and stones. I grew up hunting and fishing around SE NC and can relate to a lot of you folks on here. I'm sure if you met me you'd know I'm just a down to earth gal who just wants to believe that we haven't slipped so far down the slope of encroachment that we've lost another magnificent species. Oh, and I do appreciate mentors. I think we can all learn a thing or two from everyone. I am a good listener. :-)
One more thing, down around the WR there is absolutely nothing in the way of amenities. Think impoverished delta communities. It looked like something out of a depression era documentary. Folks will still stay up around Brinkley and drive down. I did, since that was the only place with high speed Internet.
-christen
"In the past, eye-witness reports from experts were good enough. I guess not anymore in the video age."
There it is Christen's quote of the day. The same used to justify UFOs as aliens. "Too many great airline pilots report seeing aliens to not be real." That's exactly what Dr. Hynek said to justify his beliefs in UFOs.
No, Christen! In the past reports were not sufficient to document Extraordinary Claims! Do you see aliens walking among us?
Christen,
You are not a Skeptic. You sound like a True Believer.
Just like me.
Signed,
The TB
Belief is a great thing, gives us hope and all that stuff.
The fact is NOTHING to date justifies this belief except a few fleeting sightings and a fuzzy video that nobody can agree upon.
There are no:
Noisy vocalizations
No pairs
No wingbeat sounds
No roost holes
No nest cavities
No breeding pairs with young
No clear pictures
No prior sightings in Arkansas for roughly 90 years.
No sights in the Cache River area until 2004 although frequented by Hunters, Fishermen, and other nature people.
As repeated often, Tanner and Peterson found the last remaining birds relatively easily and relatively easily documented their existence.
Like everybody keeps saying "FAITH BASED ORNITHOLOGY" is not science.
There it is Christen's quote of the day. The same used to justify UFOs as aliens. "Too many great airline pilots report seeing aliens to not be real." That's exactly what Dr. Hynek said to justify his beliefs in UFOs.
No, Christen! In the past reports were not sufficient to document Extraordinary Claims! Do you see aliens walking among us?
I'm not sure if I would agree that this is the same thing. Maybe if aliens looked like everyone else around here I would agree to your analogy. Thing is, unless you're a naturalist, birder, or biologist, if you saw an IBWO, chances are you would remark about how big that woodpecker was you were looking at and not think a thing about it. In the grand scheme of things, we're all getting excited about something most folks could give a hoot about. I live in a small NC town about 10 miles from where Wilson shot his IBWO's. Not including me, I'll wager that there are maybe 2 other people in town that would even recognize an IBWO. Now, if aliens are little green men, then we would all recognize them walking down the street.
I do like the Hynek reference though. If you recall, Hynek was hired by the USAF for Project Sign, Project Bluebook's predecessor in 1948. At the time, he was adamantly skeptical about UFO's. He said that the “the whole subject seems utterly ridiculous”. He did believe something was out there eventually though. One reasonhe changed his tune was that the AF was so totally against there being any UFO's. He became resentful. Nothing is always black, he said. He had another quote which I think is very fitting to our line of interest: "As a scientist I must be mindful of the past; all too often it has happened that matters of great value to science were overlooked because the new phenomenon did not fit the accepted scientific outlook of the time." Indeed.
Belief is a great thing, gives us hope and all that stuff.
The fact is NOTHING to date justifies this belief except a few fleeting sightings and a fuzzy video that nobody can agree upon.
There are no:
Noisy vocalizations
No pairs
No wingbeat sounds
No roost holes
No nest cavities
No breeding pairs with young
No clear pictures
No prior sightings in Arkansas for roughly 90 years.
No sights in the Cache River area until 2004 although frequented by Hunters, Fishermen, and other nature people.
As repeated often, Tanner and Peterson found the last remaining birds relatively easily and relatively easily documented their existence.
Like everybody keeps saying "FAITH BASED ORNITHOLOGY" is not science.
I have a couple of problems with your arguments....
There are indeed "noisy vocalizations". The ARU's have picked up hundreds if not thousands of double knocks and calls. This was a quote from BH himself. I was there when he said it. Granted, I've only heard about 10 from AR, but they sound genuine, and the sonograms match.
If there are at best 10 pairs of birds in the entire Big Woods, then at best, that would mean 10 nesting cavities being used this season. As one who has actually been there, I can say beyond the shadow of a doubt that it will be next to impossible to find any one of those nest cavities with the current number of folks they have out there looking. I think it will take years of looking to find evidence.
Lastly, Tanner and Peterson found the birds easily only because they both had a VERY experienced woodsman show them exactly where to look. True woodsmen of that caliber rarely exist anymore. In the few times I've been lucky enough to go out in the woods with someone like that I try my best to soak up as much knowledge as I can.
-christen
But look at people like Christen. Young, bright, energetic. But without guidance, logic, and a good background in science and investigation. Think about where all that energy could be focused in the study and conservation of hardwood bottomlands.
I mean have you ever been in a hardwood bottomland forest when the leaves are on the trees, your feet are wet, and the forest is alive with bird song. What's wrong with that? Forget the exinct IBWO, it really doesn't matter.
So there you have it. Christen says that maybe we should keep an open mind about UFOs. That's what Dr. Hynek did. So why shouldn't we believe that IBWOs exist?
No statement more clearly defines the divide between Skeptics and True Believers. We should keep an open mind about UFOs, Bigfoot, Elvis alive, and Cold Fusion saving us from the oil crisis.
That sound you hear is Sagan rolling over in his grave.
Christen,
What features of the video convince you that it is not a Pileated? Haven't seen any reasoned arguments on that account for a while.
anonanon
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