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11 comments:
Let me help out our good German friends.
1.The Ivory-billed is extinct.
2.We don't need no stinkin' German blather cluttering up our god-given American born and raised IBWO fiasco.
(please note that I did not call Germans stinkin'. I called their blather stinkin'.)
Thanks for helping us.
Regarding your first point:
How cool that someone finally KNOWS FOR SURE! Well, then just publish your PROOF in a scientific magazine and the whole case is settled. Then we can give Tom a little rest here.
Regarding your second point:
If I look at the comment section of this blog, I see a lot of American stinkin' blather about your god-given American born and raised IBWO fiasco. Maybe it isn't such a completely bad idea to let someone from the "outside" have a look at the subject who still maintains a more open mind than both the American "believers" and "non-believers" (I never knew bird identification had anything to do with belief)! Then Americans could finally resume discussing the pro's and con's of teaching evolution at school again!
Oooops, there you have it: stinkin' blather from a presumably non-stinkin' German reader
Oooops, there you have it: stinkin' blather from a presumably non-stinkin' German reader
Your written english is much too natural to make me think you're German.
Well, German friend, if you can prove the existance of IBWO from 9000 miles away. Then I say, "go for it".
Because we Americans can't from a distance of just 50 feet. (or whatever the latest publish estimate is by Gallagher for his sighting)
BTW, who's keeping that official blog list that was published here a while back? You can add Germans to the list of Elvis, TB, Aliens, etc.
Yes, and another thing. Your slur about evolution.....well you are just preaching to the choir here. Heck, we all believe that!
Let me help you. If you really want to get under our Skeptic skins, post a practical joke website with really poor video, audio, and pics of "Ivory-billeds". Pretend that they are real, have a great bio for yourself, and just act crazy.
That will really set us off. Let us know if you can be of any further help.
Good luck on your IBWO searches in Germany.
"Your written english is much too natural to make me think you're German."
Thanks for the compliment. I AM a German who's living in Germany and who's simply spent a few years abroad (Canada, US, southern Africa).
"Well, German friend, if you can prove the existance of IBWO from 9000 miles away. Then I say, "go for it"."
It was never my intention to prove the existence of the Ivorybill. I was just trying (or rather hoping) to make the following point:
You can't KNOW if the Ivorybill is extinct or not! Its extinction might be more probable than its survival, even more probable by far, but currently it appears to me that it takes a very brave (or foolish) man to say the species is extinct FOR SURE! On what basis is your claim founded that is more solid than the basis of the "believers"?
I have been following this blog for quite some time now and have come to notice something that I find very interesting about the reactions to the Luneau video:
First, the skeptics said it might be an Ivorybill, but the video just wasn't good enough to be accepted as proof. Then they said a Pileated with abnormally white secondaries couldn't be ruled out and now the skeptics have reached a point where they claim the bird to be nothing but an ordinary Pileated.
I probably agree with the first two points. But in my opinion, this last step is pushing things too far. To demonstrate this, let us assume the Ivorybill was the ordinary North American backyard woodpecker and the Pileated was the one thought to be extinct since the 1940ies. Now all of a sudden, Luneau emerges from the Arkansas swamps with this video, claiming to have proof that "Pileateds still fly". Would you believe it? Would you accept this blurry video and the analysis by Sibley et al. as sufficient proof for the existence of Pileated woodpeckers? Or would you share Cornell's view in their rebuttal of Sibley et al. in Science magazine that claims the bird is nothing but an ordinary boring Ivorybill?
I think the video is intriguing but very probably doesn't allow to safely identify the bird that's shown, neither as an Ivorybill nor as a Pileated. It seems more rational therefore to stick to the argumentation that the proof for the bird being an Ivorybill is inconclusive rather than to claim the bird is an ordinary Pileated and put yourself in a position where you have to PROVE this claim.
"BTW, who's keeping that official blog list that was published here a while back? You can add Germans to the list of Elvis, TB, Aliens, etc."
Now, that reaction leads me to believe you have completely misunderstood the aim of the German conference: Germans are not (necessarily) believers. Well, frankly, I think most birders in Germany aren't bothered about this whole subject at all. We have enough bird species on this side of the Atlantic to float our boat. You see, the interest of the global birding community isn't centered around the survival of the Ivorybill as it might currently be the case in the US. But German birders might find it interesting to learn about the Ivorybill (many probably won't even know it exists/existed) and the whole story behind the claimed rediscovery, including the pro's AND con's. And I just don't see why a neutrally interested German audience needs to be insulted by a skeptic just because of the fact that they are interested in hearing about the subject.
"Let me help you. If you really want to get under our Skeptic skins, post a practical joke website with really poor video, audio, and pics of "Ivory-billeds". Pretend that they are real, have a great bio for yourself, and just act crazy."
As much as I had never realized before that bird identification had anything to do with belief, I am completely surprised that discussing bird identification required joke websites, poor videos and acting crazy.
"Let us know if you can be of any further help."
I never offered my help and never thought you - or anyone else - needed it. Did you consider the possibility of an overreaction from your side before responding to my comment or even responding to the request to offer information about the Ivorybill debate for a conference in Germany (assuming I am corresponding with the same person who posted the comment)?
"Yes, and another thing. Your slur about evolution....."
I actually had to look up "slur" in my dictionary... I don't think I was "sluring", I think my writing was rather clear. I suppose most birders will believe in evolution, but I nevertheless find the discussion around evolution and the survival of the Ivorybill have a lot in common:
both sides won't accept the "proof" the other is presenting and because this has brought the constructive discussion to an end, they shifted to throwing insults at the other side just to keep the dialog alive. For goodness's sake, the whole debate is just about a BIRD, nothing more! Stay reasonable and stay polite!
"Good luck on your IBWO searches in Germany."
Thanks! I might hire PIXAR or George Lucas to produce a sharp flight shot of an Ivorybill over downtown Heidelberg, as soon as Cornell provides the funding!
"Thanks! I might hire PIXAR or George Lucas to produce a sharp flight shot of an Ivorybill over downtown Heidelberg, as soon as Cornell provides the funding! "
Now that's the spirit. That's what we wanted. But your post was way too long. It's just an extinct bird, remember? Don't try so hard.
BTW, a slur also means a "term of disparagement".
"But your post was way too long. It's just an extinct bird, remember? Don't try so hard.
BTW, a slur also means a "term of disparagement"."
Now you made me look up "disparagement" in my dictionary...
Two new words learned, not bad.
Yeah, I was probably overreacting to an overreaction. I just sincerely hope my blather didn't stink.
Hey, maybe I could make some money by producing two images (one of a Pileated and one of an Ivorybill flying over Heidelberg) and then see who offers more money to publish the one and suppress the other: the skeptic side or Cornell.
And then I could use this money to go searching for Bachman's Warbler in Cuba.
Ha!
I knew it! All it takes is a cold-blooded German birder with a camera and a few minutes to spare and he comes up with undisputable PROOF of an Ivorybill in Germany.
Go to www.club300.de,
click on "gallery", then "Gallery Germany" and finally "Weniger haufige Arten" and you'll see a crisp and sharp image of a melanistic male Ivorybill!
Cheers, enjoy!
I'm beginning to like you Mr. German. Welcome to our little forum. May you add to our discussions all the blather that you care to share.
Cheers (or should I say "prost") to that!
Mr. German
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